The challenges of data organization and record association can often become a significant roadblock to efficiency and growth. This is a story about how one company overcame these hurdles, transforming its sales operations and setting the stage for a new era of success.
Meet Matthieu Dumont, a seasoned professional in sales operations, who found himself grappling with a complex problem. His company, Talent.com, operated with multiple global brands and was struggling with the deduplication and association of contacts within its CRM, HubSpot. The default association process was causing confusion and inefficiencies, with sales reps stepping on each other's toes and losing faith in the system. The problem was clear, but the solution was not.
Enter Insycle, a powerful tool that promised to solve Talent.com’s association issues and streamline its sales operations. Dumont and his team embarked on a journey of transformation, testing and implementing Insycle's capabilities to their fullest extent.
The result? A game-changing solution that not only solved their immediate problem but also opened the door to tackling other projects and enhancing their sales processes.
In this interview, we delve into Dumont's journey, exploring the challenges Talent.com faced, the solutions it implemented, and the resulting impact on the business. From the initial identification of the problem to the final implementation of Insycle, this is a tale of innovation, determination, and the power of the right tool in the right hands.
My name is Matthieu Dumont. I have been working for Talent for two years now. Talent is a job aggregator. We are a job site where we basically crawl every website on the web, get their job offers, and post them on our website, so that every job seeker in the world can go on our website and look for the perfect job for them.
Our business model is centered around online pay-per-click advertising. Our clients compensate us to display their ads, which we strategically place higher in search results to increase visibility. Each time an ad is clicked, we earn revenue.
In my role as Sales Operations Manager at Talent, I oversee all aspects of sales operations, a broad and varied field. However, our primary focus is managing the sales process end-to-end, from prospecting to closing deals with clients.
A crucial part of my job is ensuring that all pertinent data is correctly logged in our systems. This allows our senior management team to have access to the necessary information to make informed decisions. Additionally, this data is shared with other teams to help them meet their targets and apply relevant discounts.
To delve into the specifics of our daily operations, we focus on supporting our various sales teams, which are the backbone of Talent.com. As a sales-driven organization, we employ approximately 60 sales representatives across the globe, primarily in Europe, the U.S., Canada, and Latin America.
These sales teams are organized by territories, including the French team, the U.K. team, the U.S. team, the Canadian team, and so on. One of our significant challenges, and perhaps why we work so closely with them, is ensuring they can meet their targets. To do this, they need to consider their guaranteed sales for the current quarter and determine how much they need to add to the top of their sales funnel.
This is where our role becomes crucial. We ensure that they have a sufficiently large portfolio of potential new business companies to reach out to. For instance, if we have five representatives in the French team, we ensure that each representative has approximately 400 companies that meet our qualification criteria. These companies are then logged as “need qualified” in our CRM.
We also provide reporting on their progress. For example, we might report that they've reached out to 50% of their portfolio of potential businesses.
We aim to accelerate our pace, increasing the number of meetings we have with potential companies and ensuring we can close deals with them. This could involve offering discounts or promotional pricing, provided we can secure approval from finance.
Our strategy involves supporting the sales leaders in these efforts. Additionally, we provide the necessary data infrastructure and sales tools. This ensures our sales teams have everything they need to input their data, understand their current situation, and access all the necessary tools to close contracts, launch accounts, and initiate campaigns.
We've also implemented a high degree of automation. For instance, as soon as a contract is signed, an automatic notification is sent to the customer success manager, who then takes care of the onboarding process.
Our team, which consists of four people, monitors these processes.
“We aim to accelerate our pace, increasing the number of meetings we have with potential companies and ensuring we can close deals with them… Our strategy involves supporting the sales leaders in these efforts. Additionally, we provide the necessary data infrastructure and sales tools.”
About a year ago, we encountered a significant issue. Upon auditing our system, we found that the basic HubSpot setup was only partially meeting our needs. The system was designed around the concept of one company per email domain, which worked fine for some businesses. For instance, if we had the company Adecco in HubSpot, we'd have one record for Adecco.com, and then we could have multiple local duplicates like Adecco.fr for Adecco France, adecco.be for Adecco Belgium, and so on.
However, this became problematic for global companies with a single email domain, like our own Talent.com. In HubSpot, we would only have one company record, which made it challenging to manage different records and the portfolios of our various sales teams, especially when they were interacting with different stakeholders around the world.
Our ultimate goal was to have one company record per country for large, multinational companies, and then group them under a custom object called “global accounts.” For example, we wanted to create separate records for Adecco France, Adecco Belgium, Adecco Netherlands, etc., and then link them all under the global accounts object. Unfortunately, this wasn't possible with HubSpot's default setup unless done manually .
We explored different options, even consulting with our customer service rep at HubSpot, who recommended another application that didn't offer the flexibility we needed. We considered hiring a developer, but translating our business requirements to someone unfamiliar with the nuances of the sales process proved challenging.
That's when we started looking for software that could meet our needs, leading us to discover Insycle.
“Our ultimate goal was to have one company record per country for large, multinational companies, and then group them under a custom object called “global accounts.” For example, we wanted to create separate records for Adecco France, Adecco Belgium, Adecco Netherlands, etc., and then link them all under the global accounts object.”
Exactly. We primarily work with large companies that operate in multiple countries. The default association setup from HubSpot didn't allow us to properly manage these accounts or generate accurate reports. It also complicated things for managers trying to determine which companies were assigned to their representatives.
For instance, a manager might see that two contacts from a client company were assigned to someone else. The company is active and is a client, but doesn't belong to their regionally-focused team. This confusion was largely due to HubSpot's default association, which was a significant obstacle for us.
While HubSpot is excellent for many things, it didn't offer us the flexibility we needed for this particular issue. The only alternative was to remove the default association, which would mean manually managing everything—an impractical solution. So, we decided to find a more efficient solution to this problem.
“We primarily work with large companies that operate in multiple countries. The default association setup from HubSpot didn't allow us to properly manage these accounts or generate accurate reports. It also complicated things for managers trying to determine which companies were assigned to their representatives.”
Indeed, there was. We had numerous representatives coming to us saying, "This account isn't under my name, and I see other reps contacting these accounts even though they're supposed to be mine." We had to spend time explaining that this was due to HubSpot's default association and how it worked.
For instance, if a rep wanted to prospect outside of their country, we had to explain why they were seeing contacts from other regions on their account. We couldn't remove the activity from these contacts because we needed that communication to remain visible in HubSpot.
This was a frustrating explanation to give to our reps, who were trying to maintain faith in our CRM system. At a time when we needed to become more organized, precise, and standardized, this issue was holding us back.
“For instance, if a rep wanted to prospect outside of their country, we had to explain why they were seeing contacts from other regions on their account. We couldn't remove the activity from these contacts because we needed that communication to remain visible in HubSpot.”
Yes, it was also a matter of credibility. At one point, we hired a significant number of salespeople. They would ask, "Where should I begin? Can my manager assign some companies to me?" We could assign some accounts, but others were off-limits because they belonged to a rep in another country. Due to structural limitations in our CRM, we couldn't reassign these accounts, which was difficult to explain.
We found ourselves saying, "This will be fixed, but we don't know when or how." From that moment, we knew we needed to do something. If we wanted to move forward with this CRM, we had to address these issues.
“We found ourselves saying, ’This will be fixed, but we don't know when or how.’ From that moment, we knew we needed to do something.”
Well, there was never a "funny" moment per se, as managing records manually is far from amusing. But at one point, we recognized a significant problem and decided to create records manually. We would say, "This company is in your country," and assign the contacts in that country manually. If a contact from that company was from another country, we would manually dissociate it and reassociate it with the other company.
This involved a lot of manual work, and we only did it for specific large companies, trying to keep it to a bare minimum. We didn't discuss this method with many reps because it was a nightmare to manage, very time-consuming, and ultimately unsustainable. Plus, we knew we would eventually have to get rid of those workflows and records. So, while it wasn't a humorous situation, we're glad we've moved past that approach.
“This involved a lot of manual work, and we only did it for specific large companies, trying to keep it to a bare minimum. We didn't discuss this method with many reps because it was a nightmare to manage, very time-consuming, and ultimately unsustainable.”
I remember our first meeting with Insycle. I thought, "This is perfect. This is what I need." I was surprised that I hadn't heard of it before and that our customer service rep at HubSpot hadn't recommended it. We tested it for a week using the online trial version and found that it could do exactly what we needed in an intuitive way.
After showing it to a few people in the company, we decided to move forward with the plan and implement Insycle on a larger scale. We wrote the formulas in Insycle and connected them to our CRM to automate the solution to our problem.
The entire team worked on this for about a month. The first week was spent creating the base formula and ensuring the program ran smoothly. We connected all the recipes to our CRM and made sure everything was correctly fitting into our data infrastructure.
After a month, we decided to scale it. We stopped the default association process from HubSpot, something I never imagined we would do, and started the recipe in Insycle. This created a lot of "good duplicates," or the records we needed for different countries. By the end of the weekend, we had created the companies we needed.
Then we had to go through a lot of internal data cleaning. For example, we had to reassign the ownership of companies to the correct representatives. This was a lengthy process, but it was definitely worth it. Without Insycle, we couldn't have done it.
So that's how we managed to solve our initial problem, and it was done in just one month. This marked a significant turning point in our CRM usage.
“Then we had to go through a lot of internal data cleaning. For example, we had to reassign the ownership of companies to the correct representatives. This was a lengthy process, but it was definitely worth it. Without Insycle, we couldn't have done it.”
That's a complex topic. I told the first sales operations person I hired that we had to think like developers, even though we didn't know anything about coding. That's where Insycle came in. We had to define the "piece of code" we wrote together. Our primary association process was based on two pillars: the email domain of the company and the country.
We wanted to create a rule that every time we had a similar email domain in a similar country, it should be one record. So, if a contact has the same email domain and the same country as a company, they should be associated with that record.
However, we also had to consider subdomains and top-level domains. For example, if we had john@sap.fr and john@sap.com, and both are based in France, they should be assigned to the same company. Insycle allowed us to do this, even though it was a complex coding problem.
We managed to create a robust system where we don't have to manually review many associations. Currently, I believe 99% of our associations, in terms of contact-to-company relationships, are handled through Insycle, which is exactly what we wanted.
“We managed to create a robust system where we don't have to manually review many associations. Currently, I believe 99% of our associations, in terms of contact-to-company relationships, are handled through Insycle, which is exactly what we wanted.”
We've made a lot of requests, which we've appreciated because we work with about 10 different software solutions for the sales team. Often, when something isn't working the way we want or a key feature isn't available, we get a response from support saying, "We don't have that at the moment, but we'll add it to our list of product wishes." They then ask us to vote for the idea in a developer's forum, which never seems to lead anywhere.
With Insycle, however, you've been amazing. Most of the time, when we asked for something, you actually implemented it—and quickly too, which was greatly appreciated.
For instance, we struggled because HubSpot only allows manual merging for our use case. But with Insycle, we could correct user mistakes automatically. For example, if we had two companies with the same main email domain in the same country, we could merge them.
You added the "merge IDs" feature to Insycle, which made it easier for us to find the old record and the new record. This was also important for our connections from our CRM to our other systems. Now, we don't have to manually look for and replace the old record. We can have a piece of code that says, "If we have that ID, look into the Insycle merge ID and replace the main ID that is connected to our other tool."
This is all about solving small problems and not having to do things manually, which we sometimes have to do in other circumstances. But with Insycle, that's never a problem, which is really enjoyable.
“With Insycle, however, you've been amazing. Most of the time, when we asked for something, you actually implemented it—and quickly too, which was greatly appreciated.”
When we talk about duplicates, we usually have one record where most of the important things are located, and another record with less information. However, that other record was still created, and it might contain some important information. So, when we merge, we usually keep most of the information from the record we want to retain, but we also ensure we don't lose any information from the other record.
We control this process by saying, "If there is data in this field, store it in that field before merging it, in case we need to retrieve something." We have alerts set up to ensure we don't lose any information, like the link to the contract ID. But this doesn't happen often because we know exactly what we're merging with Insycle.
We put a lot of emphasis on not losing any potentially important data. So far, we haven't lost anything through our automated merging with Insycle, which is perfect.
“We have alerts set up to ensure we don't lose any information, like the link to the contract ID. But this doesn't happen often because we know exactly what we're merging with Insycle.”
Yes, we were. Insycle allows us to specify which data or fields we want to keep, which solves a lot of our problems. With HubSpot, when you merge, you have to choose which record you want to keep. If both records have information in a field, it will keep the information from the record you chose to keep.
With Insycle, you can redefine a more complex merging process if you want. You can specify what you want to do before merging, and this can be done automatically. This process helps ensure that you or your team don't make any mistakes.
Yes, it makes things a bit more complicated, but you make one mistake, adapt the recipe, and then ensure that nobody makes that mistake ever again.
“With Insycle, you can redefine a more complex merging process if you want. You can specify what you want to do before merging, and this can be done automatically. This process helps ensure that you or your team don't make any mistakes.”
The implementation of Insycle was indeed very impactful. The real advantage was that our team could operate at a much higher pace than if we had a development team to coordinate. I'm currently working on a project where we have two developers, and we have to organize sprint planning, set timelines, and write tickets to instruct them on what to do. This process can take about two weeks to a month just because it's a different world. You have to specify exactly what you want because you're not able to speak their language.
This is where Insycle brings value because we don't have to lose time on project management, which is a full-time job in itself. The second point is that you can do things much faster with Insycle. So, we justified the value of using Insycle based on these advantages.
“This is where Insycle brings value because we don't have to lose time on project management, which is a full-time job in itself.“
That's a bit complicated. Salespeople are often afraid of losing what they have. At first, they were scared. They thought, "They're going to do a massive change, and everything is going to be different." People are generally afraid of change, and honestly, I was scared as well. Creating 30,000 records through a process that could go wrong is nerve-wracking. I've done so many workflows and automations in my life that I pay close attention to details, but there's always one workflow that goes wrong. I remember once sending myself 30,000 notification emails on HubSpot, which arrived in my inbox and blocked my mailbox for two days.
So, I understood their fear. But when they saw that everything was running smoothly, that the new process was working well, and that they all had their companies correctly assigned, their fears eased. We accompanied them through the process, explaining, "Hey, these are all the records that we created in your country. If you have contacts in other countries that were assigned to you because the company is headquartered there, make sure they are re-assigned to the right representative. If not, you can just mention it here, and we'll take care of the rest."
At that point, they didn't say much, but we knew they were satisfied because this was what they wanted. We had identified the needs of the sales team way before, and we knew that this was meeting their needs. After that, they naturally came to us for more projects. However, this is where the second battle began, because we had to tell them, "Hey, we're not going to do that because it's not a priority, and there are more interesting things to do on a global level."
So, they had to wait for their projects. But they were happy. The way the technology was working was a significant blocking factor, and when they realized that we removed it, they were relieved. It wasn't a realization that happened in one day. They had to see that everything was working more smoothly and that they were encountering the problem less and less often. That was when they realized, "Hey, the sales operations team did a good job."
For us, this was definitely a game-changer. After implementing this solution, we entered a new era where we finally had something tangible for our CRM. We gained credibility with our sales leaders, saying, "Now we can start the real work. We're transitioning from a small or medium-sized business to a sales machine, implementing sales processes that have proven effective in large companies." This change elevated our organization to the next level, enabling us to tackle projects that required this foundational shift. It took us to where we needed to be, something that was not possible before.
“This change elevated our organization to the next level, enabling us to tackle projects that required this foundational shift. It took us to where we needed to be, something that was not possible before.”
I would say, and it's something everyone says, look at the big picture. In my first six months, I had many conversations with sales leaders. Everyone had complaints and problems, and when you have all this information, it's essential to identify the most significant problem that's preventing us from moving forward. It's not about minor issues; it's about what's blocking us in terms of data flow and where we want to go. What do the sales leaders and managers want to base their decisions on? If they have the right reports to make the decisions that will help them, they will need the data, and your role is to provide exactly that data.
What's blocking you in terms of data infrastructure? For us, it was the association process from HubSpot in its default form. Identifying the right problem that's blocking everything was the turning point for us. Once we fixed that major issue, we could move forward with other projects. This allowed us to demonstrate value, hire more people, and give more importance to the sales operation team as a whole, which was quite nice.